Intro Br. Denis Minihane
THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning Mr. O'Leary. Just give us a minute while we go through the little photo opportunities.
MR. O'LEARY: Indeed.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Good morning everybody. This morning we are conducting the Phase III hearings into St. Joseph's Industrial School, Greenmount in Cork and just to indicated the order in which things will happen this morning. The Presentation Brothers are here and represented by Mr. Collins. I think he's here. Thank you, Mr. Collins. The witness, I understand, is Br. Denis Minihane; is that correct? Very good . Good morning Br. Minihane. The first thing is that our counsel, Mr. McGovern, will just introduce the witness very briefly. Following that Mr. O'Leary, counsel for the nominated legal firm, Murphy English, will examine Br. Minihane. Mr. McGovern will then conduct such examination as he thinks fit on our behalf, that is the Investigation Committee.
Then the Presentation Brothers counsel Mr. Collins will be able to examine in relation to any matters that he wishes to elucidate at that stage. I should, perhaps, say to people who are here that while we have sought to involve everybody in the process by inviting them, through their lawyers, to contact the nominated legal team with any points they wish to raise, that if people have issues or points that they want to make, or corrections, or whatever, they can write them down, we'll supply writing materials if people need them, and submit them to our legal team.
Our legal team are sitting here on my left-hand side of the front table here. So, if anybody wants to they can submit that. Or they can speak to the legal team and we will undertake to examine those and see whether they ought to be followed up in writing subsequently, or followed up in whatever fashion subsequently. So that's the way it will go. Very good. Now, Mr. McGovern, perhaps you would introduce us to Br. Minihane. Br. Minihane, could you come forward please.
BR. DENIS MINIHANE, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS QUESTIONED BY THE COMMISSION, AS FOLLOWS:
THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Br. Minihane. Will you sit down there and make yourself as comfortable as you can.
Q. MR. McGOVERN: Good morning, Br. Minihane. Have you got all the documents there that you think you'll need?
A. Yes.
Q. I am one of the counsel for the Commission and I just want to introduce you to the hearing. I don't have many questions to ask you at this stage and, indeed, I may be asking you questions later but I don't think I will be detaining you at any great length. You prepared an opening statement on behalf of the Presentation Brothers in relation to institution we are investigating here, Greenmount, in Cork, isn't that right, St. Joseph's?
A. That's right.
Q. Did you spend some time there yourself as a Brother?
A. I spent about five months there in 1953
Q. Yes. What is your position in the Order of the Presentation Brothers now?
A. I am just representing them. I don't have any title.
Q. I see. :
A. Thank God.
Q. Can I just ask you what was the source of your information in preparing the opening statement on behalf of the Presentation Brothers?
A. All the documents that exist, and we have pretty good documents.
Q. Yes. There were some additional documents produced to the Commission after the hearings had taken place, or the bulk of them had taken place, can you tell the Commission why they were produced at that stage and not earlier? Do you know?
A. What have you in mind?
Q. There was a book of additional documents, they contained items such as the manager's annual report tothe Department, and things of that nature?
A. They were always available. I have no reason to believe that they weren't.
Q. I see, very good. Can you tell the Commission when did the school finally close down?
A. The school closed in 31st March, 1959
Q. What happened to the premises then?
A. It became a juniorate for our own aspirants for some time and eventually was demolished.
Q. What happened the land, was the land kept by the Order or sold off?
A. No, the land was sold off in bit and pieces.
Q. When was that?
A. It was in the 80's I would say.
Q. Yes. I think you understand the purpose of today's hearing, that we have had lengthy hearings of this institution and other institutions, at which evidence was given in private, and there may be some questions that parties would want to ask you arising out of what might be seen as unresolved issues, or issues giving rise to certain queries at this point. You know, I think, that you are here to deal with those questions that you will be asked by different parties?
A. Yeah.
Q. As the Chairman has already said, some of the other parties will proceed. I think Mr. O'Leary will be asking you question, he is representing complainants.Then there will be questions from Mr. Collins, and myself perhaps. Is that your understanding of what you are here to do?
A. Yes.
Q. You feel you have all the documentation that you need for that purpose?
A. Yes.
Q. I see. Chairman, I don't think there is anything else I need to do at this stage?
THE CHAIRPERSON: No, that's it Mr. McGovern.
MR. McGOVERN: I can ask what questions I wish to do at a later point.
END OF QUESTIONING OF BR. DENIS MINIHANE BY THE COMMISSION
MR. O'LEARY: Indeed.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Good morning everybody. This morning we are conducting the Phase III hearings into St. Joseph's Industrial School, Greenmount in Cork and just to indicated the order in which things will happen this morning. The Presentation Brothers are here and represented by Mr. Collins. I think he's here. Thank you, Mr. Collins. The witness, I understand, is Br. Denis Minihane; is that correct? Very good . Good morning Br. Minihane. The first thing is that our counsel, Mr. McGovern, will just introduce the witness very briefly. Following that Mr. O'Leary, counsel for the nominated legal firm, Murphy English, will examine Br. Minihane. Mr. McGovern will then conduct such examination as he thinks fit on our behalf, that is the Investigation Committee.
Then the Presentation Brothers counsel Mr. Collins will be able to examine in relation to any matters that he wishes to elucidate at that stage. I should, perhaps, say to people who are here that while we have sought to involve everybody in the process by inviting them, through their lawyers, to contact the nominated legal team with any points they wish to raise, that if people have issues or points that they want to make, or corrections, or whatever, they can write them down, we'll supply writing materials if people need them, and submit them to our legal team.
Our legal team are sitting here on my left-hand side of the front table here. So, if anybody wants to they can submit that. Or they can speak to the legal team and we will undertake to examine those and see whether they ought to be followed up in writing subsequently, or followed up in whatever fashion subsequently. So that's the way it will go. Very good. Now, Mr. McGovern, perhaps you would introduce us to Br. Minihane. Br. Minihane, could you come forward please.
BR. DENIS MINIHANE, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS QUESTIONED BY THE COMMISSION, AS FOLLOWS:
THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Br. Minihane. Will you sit down there and make yourself as comfortable as you can.
Q. MR. McGOVERN: Good morning, Br. Minihane. Have you got all the documents there that you think you'll need?
A. Yes.
Q. I am one of the counsel for the Commission and I just want to introduce you to the hearing. I don't have many questions to ask you at this stage and, indeed, I may be asking you questions later but I don't think I will be detaining you at any great length. You prepared an opening statement on behalf of the Presentation Brothers in relation to institution we are investigating here, Greenmount, in Cork, isn't that right, St. Joseph's?
A. That's right.
Q. Did you spend some time there yourself as a Brother?
A. I spent about five months there in 1953
Q. Yes. What is your position in the Order of the Presentation Brothers now?
A. I am just representing them. I don't have any title.
Q. I see. :
A. Thank God.
Q. Can I just ask you what was the source of your information in preparing the opening statement on behalf of the Presentation Brothers?
A. All the documents that exist, and we have pretty good documents.
Q. Yes. There were some additional documents produced to the Commission after the hearings had taken place, or the bulk of them had taken place, can you tell the Commission why they were produced at that stage and not earlier? Do you know?
A. What have you in mind?
Q. There was a book of additional documents, they contained items such as the manager's annual report tothe Department, and things of that nature?
A. They were always available. I have no reason to believe that they weren't.
Q. I see, very good. Can you tell the Commission when did the school finally close down?
A. The school closed in 31st March, 1959
Q. What happened to the premises then?
A. It became a juniorate for our own aspirants for some time and eventually was demolished.
Q. What happened the land, was the land kept by the Order or sold off?
A. No, the land was sold off in bit and pieces.
Q. When was that?
A. It was in the 80's I would say.
Q. Yes. I think you understand the purpose of today's hearing, that we have had lengthy hearings of this institution and other institutions, at which evidence was given in private, and there may be some questions that parties would want to ask you arising out of what might be seen as unresolved issues, or issues giving rise to certain queries at this point. You know, I think, that you are here to deal with those questions that you will be asked by different parties?
A. Yeah.
Q. As the Chairman has already said, some of the other parties will proceed. I think Mr. O'Leary will be asking you question, he is representing complainants.Then there will be questions from Mr. Collins, and myself perhaps. Is that your understanding of what you are here to do?
A. Yes.
Q. You feel you have all the documentation that you need for that purpose?
A. Yes.
Q. I see. Chairman, I don't think there is anything else I need to do at this stage?
THE CHAIRPERSON: No, that's it Mr. McGovern.
MR. McGOVERN: I can ask what questions I wish to do at a later point.
END OF QUESTIONING OF BR. DENIS MINIHANE BY THE COMMISSION
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